I have been a Star Trek fan for a very long time, I have been reading comments and strings of this for awhile however this is my first post on Trek Web.
This downfall has been in the works for a very long time, and as I said I have read peoples post over the last several years along with my own view and Star trek fans are one of the most qualified people who now what there are talking about.
Over the time back whenever the exact point in which this trend of ST took a turn, wether it was the moment Berman took over after Roddenberry death or started sometime after in any case the concern grew by fans who noticed something was wrong and comments started to be directed to B&B questioning what was happening, then it started to grow into warnings and predictions being stated to B&B, B&B refused to acknowledged and made some rather harsh remarks about Roddenberry's creation after that it grew worse people kept telling and screaming, stated they are going to run ST in to the ground or they porceive that it will be killed they begged B&B to listen to the fans about the show and what was important..and what has just happened in the last 3 years the first Star Trek film Nemesis to be a complete failure and now the First TV series since the original to be cancelled early and not make it to a 7th season.
Braga is bullheaded and is wrong, as a fan I never felt I have had enough ST and as ENT is just gotten to the point where it has turn for the better thanks to Coto I don't want it to go on a "rest" for awhile I want a 5th, 6th and seven seasons with Coto. Oh the arrogance of B&B all these years!!! Roddenberry has been turning over in his grave. All us fans should be in charge of the Star Trek. Good Eye people!!! its ashame it wasn't appreciated by B&B.
Elara_Bern
"I'm not going to stand here and say the quality of the show declined - I don't happen to think it did - I just think there was too much."
Holy Christ, what a moron. Yeah, the show was just brimming with quality such as Archer's dog getting sick, alien Nazi's putting laser beams on Stukas, gift shopping for Reed, and Tucker waltzing around with a boner for a Vulcan.
I'm sorry, but the more these idiots spit out their insanely dumb babble about lack of advertising or franchise fatigue, the more I'm glad this show is getting shitcanned.
Deny deny deny seems to be the party line coming from the Star Trek offices these days.
"Oh no, it's not the quality of the show. The quality has remained the same. It's just franchise fatigue."
I like how 4 years ago there was no such thing as franchise fatigue. Now that Enterprise is cancelled all of a sudden people were just tired of Star Trek. And how this moron can say with a straight face that the quality has not changed shows that he is either a complete idiot, deluded himself into thinking episodes like "A Night In Sickbay" are of the same quality as "The Visitor," or both. I'm glad he's got a new series because it means he won't be working on Star Trek anymore. Berman needs to be shuffled off as well. The two of them took this once respected franchise and drove it into a brick wall repeatedly until it was dead.
I also like how you need permission to post on brannonbraga.com. His way of making sure only happy positive posts get on there. Keep deluding yourself you idiot.
according to braga....
1. it's not dead, it's just sleeping
2. star trek viewers had too many kids to have time to watch it
I love how you have to have permission to post to his message board haha. We all know it would be 99% hate mail and I am sure he knows to. Now if 99% of the trek population thinks you are a fucking retard who killed trek, how could you think otherwise?
Boy is Braga an idiot. He blames everyone and everything except himself. Quality isnt to blame? LOL. You have been on Auto pilot since you took over Voyager Brannon. The show got better this season no thanks to you.
Braga doesn't understand.
Star Trek is not supposed to be a space war TV show. It is a sci-fi mystery and exploration show. However, with the amount of phaser shooting on the Enterprise, the show quickly degenerated into another Star War related show. No wonder pp are actually comparing Enterprise with Battlestar Galatica, which are supposed to be different genera.
I have enough of phaser fighting humanoid look alike alien. Time to bring back those weird, out of shape aliens and the strange new world that Star Trek promised.
Braga is the one who need a 'gestation' period not Trek.
If we had Season 4 in season 3, we sure would have a season 5, 6 & 7.
The only people he can blame are himself and the usless writing hack he shares Executive Producer title with.
Quote:
Those people who watched NEXT GENERATION, we have found, were largely people in college who have families now, who are in their 40s or late 30s - they don't watch television as much. They had their STAR TREK.
And what about those of us who grew up on the original series? Braga still doesn't get it...TNG was not the beginning of the STAR TREK saga, and it will not be the end. He hates the original STAR TREK so much, it biases everything he says. The man has no credibility with me. If he had produced a hit show before joining the crew, I might think differently. But his entire career has been spent on STAR TREK, and he has no perspective.
And he hates the fans. It shows. He doesn't want them messing with his play-pretty, so he blames the cancellation on "franchise fatigue," claiming the "quality" was as good as ever. Open your eyes, Brannon! Why would 10,000,000 people tune out from the series premiere to now if the quality was still as good?
Let's hope "Threshold" dies a quick death, so he can go back to being the whipping boy for a much more talented producer. But don't let him near any more STAR TREK!
--------
A generation which ignores history has no past and no future. -- Robert Heinlein
PCLinuxOS
falcon
I don't suppose we should expect the executive producer of Star Trek to know how many episodes have been produced.
Including the final episode of Enterprise, there's 704 TV episodes, 10 movies, 22 animated episodes.
Even all added up, way short of 750.
Maybe if Braga was a little more precise in his treatment of Trek people wouldn't think there was too much of it.
Truth of the matter is there's too much Braga crowding out the good stuff the fans would rather see, so the fans give up.
The finale sounds like another typical Braga gimmick. Why can't he just write a normal episode that, instead of distracting us with a lame gimmick, actually relies on established Trek history to entertain us?
Time travel and stunt casting do not compelling drama make.
This is just too sad.
-
Actually, your wrong. Time Travel does indeed make compelling drama.
City on the Edge of Forever
Tomorrow is Yesterday
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Yesterday's Enterprise
Cause and Effect
The Visitor
Star Trek: First Contact
Shockwave
Some of Star Trek's smartest, most well written and most well loved episodes and movies are time travel.Time Travel makes for compelling stories and few franchises have done it as well as Star Trek.
-
Actually, your wrong. Time Travel does indeed make compelling drama.
City on the Edge of Forever
Tomorrow is Yesterday
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Yesterday's Enterprise
Cause and Effect
The Visitor
Star Trek: First Contact
Shockwave
Some of Star Trek's smartest, most well written and most well loved episodes and movies are time travel.Time Travel makes for compelling stories and few franchises have done it as well as Star Trek.
-
If you count the 704 live-action TV episodes, the 22 animated ones, and count each feature as two episodes (since the length is the same), it comes pretty close to 750. Personally, I don't see this as a reason to nitpick. However, Braga is deluded if he thinks the quality didn't decline. The ratings for ENT's pilot proved that viewers were still interested in Trek. It wasn't until they realized that the current series was utter crap that they started bailing in droves.
The talented Mr. Coto did what he could to save the show, but without any significant promotion to alert mainstream viewers than changes were afoot, failed to entice them back. I doubt there's anyone here who thinks ENT would've floundered if it had started with Season 4. Braga's got to say what he does to salvage his career, of course, but it's a steaming pile.
--------
Jesus Saves... no one dares charge him full price
And if it really is the Enterprise-D, that takes the cake, since the actors are going to look 10 years older than they were when the damn ship BLEW UP!
-
I don't think they can use Enterprise-E because it's a registered copyright of the movie franchise, for exclusive use in the movies.
But that doesn't mean they couldn't use the Titan, which hasn't been seen in the movies or on tv, as far as I know...
--------
- Steve Lee
http://www.steveleenow.net/
Boycot Trek, refuse to purchase any Trek-related merchandise, and demand that Berman be fired. That's the only way to get them to listen to you.
-
Then the logical assumption would be that all Trek is rubbish. I say refrain from buying VOY and ENT DVDs, but buy TOS, TNG, and DS9 to let Paramount know that good Trek is still beloved, but not just any garbage they crank out and slap the Trek label on.
--------
Jesus Saves... no one dares charge him full price
Again we are going to be plagued with listening to these two assholes for the next few months talk about Trek. It is funny but with all their lip service they were never fans and never got it! But lets face it Star Trek died because of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga! To pay this fucking asshole for guest speaking on "The Philosophy of STAR TREK" is like asking a 5 year to do brain surgery. He doesn't have a clue!
Quote:"STAR TREK ENTERPRISE producer Brannon Braga was a guest speaker on "The Philosophy of STAR TREK" lecture at at Claremont McKenna College."
What kind of lousy institution would want this asshole talking about a subject he clearly has NO idea about.
Quote:"During the lecture, which was free and open to the public,
Bullshit! I guarantee there was some kind of screening process. There would of be a die hard out there that would of screwed Braga to the wall and embarrassed his useless ass.
Quote:"Braga talked about the show's cancellation for the first time and revealed his feelings about the state of the franchise.
First off it has been a few weeks now since the cancellation. This dickhead has his own web site and it made NO mention of it during the day they announced it. Several days later and still nothing. Now suddenly he "breaks his silence"? I would hope he would just do the world and go break his neck.
Quote:""After 18 straight years on the air and 750-some episodes, the current run of STAR TREK is over. Which is a good thing. It needs a rest,"
Really it needed a break? But it was ok to pitch the idea for ENT a few years back! Now we hear his other stupid half Berman is going to do another movie. What a load of bullshit! Trek didn't need a break. Trek needed a break from B&B!
Quote:"I don't know for how long. It's not up to me, it's up to Paramount Pictures. It could be a couple of years, it could be eight years, I don't know. But it is over for now. I don't see it as a cancellation, I see it as more of a gestation."
Nice response jackass! As long as Trek comes back without these two useless tits it will be in better shape!
Quote:"The most common question I would always get over the past 15 years was, 'Why is STAR TREK so popular?' Now I'm having to answer, 'Why is STAR TREK coming to an end?' It's kinda depressing," Braga said.
It is depressing because the answer is so clear. Trek is coming to an end because the two assholes in charge drove it into the ground! Now he has to go and look for a new job. With his resume being "zero" he is going to join a long line of unemployed writers who think they are great but in fact just suck.
Quote:"Why was it so popular? I could go on and on with all the reasons.
He doesn't even know and he never will. He was never a fan of Star Trek just the paycheck!
Quote:"But why did it end?
See reason above.
Quote:"I think literally people had just seen enough STAR TREK. You know, 750 episodes.
No fans got sick of the B&B rehashed boring shit!
Here is a BIG news flash. If Trek made it 750 episodes it wasn't because the fans got tired of it. With today's "bubble gum/Paris Hilton" generation. The entire thing wouldn't of made 200 episodes. So this reason of blaming the fans again is 100% bullshit! This is a nothing more than a delusional piece of shit trying to avoid the blame! Braga can go straight to hell!
Quote:" Even if this final episode of Enterprise is the best episode of STAR TREK ever made, it's still the 751st.
It won't be because Braga and Berman are writing it. So expect it to suck! One more good kick to the horse the beat into the ground! Thanks a lot fucker!
Quote:"There just comes a point when you need a break, and people have seen enough and they've devoted enough of their time and lives. Those people who watched NEXT GENERATION, we have found, were largely people in college who have families now, who are in their 40s or late 30s - they don't watch television as much. They had their STAR TREK."
What a load of CRAP! More delusional thinking!
Quote:""I'm not going to stand here and say the quality of the show declined - I don't happen to think it did - I just think there was too much."
My god can this asshole be more wrong? The QUALITY of S1-S3 SUCKED ASS! There was NO quality at all yet along any CONTINUITY with the rest of the other series. Series that this asshole worked on. The QUALITY of ENT has taken a massive nose dive and it all started when Berman took over and Braga and his band of idiots jumped on board. Again finding EXCUSES to avoid any personal blame! Again Braga can go straight to hell!
Quote:"As far as I know, nothing - in terms of television. I know there's a feature film in development. I don't know anything about it, I am not involved with it, I don't know when it might see the light of day. But in terms of television, I wouldn't expect to hear much about STAR TREK for awhile."
He is right on one thing "he knows nothing!" But we all do know that if anything of what has been said about STXI is true. It is a sure fire flop!
-
Quote:
Quote:" Even if this final episode of Enterprise is the best episode of STAR TREK ever made, it's still the 751st.
It won't be because Braga and Berman are writing it. So expect it to suck! One more good kick to the horse the beat into the ground! Thanks a lot fucker!
That was a great post - I litterally laughed out loud while reading this at work!
I hope I don't get fired!
--------
"This man thinks like me"
-- Rico the Columbian Drug Lord, in "Crocodile Dundee II"
-
Quote:
Quote:" Even if this final episode of Enterprise is the best episode of STAR TREK ever made, it's still the 751st.
It won't be because Braga and Berman are writing it. So expect it to suck! One more good kick to the horse the beat into the ground! Thanks a lot fucker!
That was a great post - I litterally laughed out loud while reading this at work!
I hope I don't get fired!
--------
"This man thinks like me"
-- Rico the Columbian Drug Lord, in "Crocodile Dundee II"
Quote:
Even if this final episode of Enterprise is the best episode of STAR TREK ever made...
I wouldn't worry about that, Brannon.
-DB
Bullshit Brandon.
The series, a bit slow and tedious (like Jim Carey or Ben Stiller movies) with predictable plot points, was still enjoyable, and Manny Coto knows what he is doing. He is actually listening, and hired people who know the backstory of Trek and are trying to make it meaningful.
I put it to you that B&B are the ones who need a rest. Their brains are tired from producing so much crap for years. I'll bet a dime to a rolling doughnut that it was B&B that pushed for the Friday nigh slot, because they couldn't stand to see their baby that they concieved, bore, and then inflincted brain dammaged apon and tried to smother be taken care of by someone who cares. Instead they starved it, and in the end shot it with a 12-guage shot gun.
GOD I HATE RICK BERMAN AND BRANDON BRAGA, THEY ARE SUCH PANDERING, MORONIC, SICK, EVIL, TWISTED, OUT-OF-TOUCH, IDIOTS, AND I HOPE THEY FAIL AT THEIR NEXT ENDEAVOR TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE.
--------
The Tegian Zone • Grow My MiniCity
-
I concur.
So let it be written; so let it be done.
--------
"Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
--James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"
"Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
--T'Pol, "The Forge"
-
I don't hate them, they have in the past produced some enjoyable Trek episodes. But I do feel that yes, their creative energies would be better spent outside of Trek.
--------
- Steve Lee
http://www.steveleenow.net/
It needs a rest so he can do his own show. Up until this point he has not bothered me much---but come on..the stories they are doing now I for one seem to enjoy much more. It does not need to go away to improve.
Brannon and Rick's comments are almost insulting to the fan base regarding it "needing a rest." Why where they so insistant 4 years ago that Trek was fine and a rest was not important. They swore up and down that a new series was the best way to continue the franchise. Now all they keep saying is 750 episodes is too much and it needs a rest. So I guess 650 episodes was ok but 750 is too much... It just feels like they are the ones now promoting its demise instead of acting like they care about the franchise. I see more pashion from Manny and the staff than the people entrusted to protect the series...
Truth be told, yes I went off on the guy on his site, so forgive me. But there are people in this world that are really in tune with the employment route that they have chosen, in this instance I don't think either Berman nor Braga really knew the first thing they were doing.
I'm not trying to be insulting, just making the statement to the factor I think it's also Paramount's fault and left both of them standing high and dry with both B&B going "well, what do we do now?"
I just wish they had been quicker on their feet. If Coto or anyone else had been brought on by at least season two, at the minimum mid-season three, there could have been some corrections done to support more seasons.
Just next time I hope that Paramount/Viacom realizes that this show needs to be handeled by more experienced sci-fi writers and producers...I just don't think these guys have the knack for writing science fiction at all.
--------
"My old friend, this song's for you. Cause a few simple verses was the least that I could do to tell the world that you were here. Cause the love and the laughter, will live on long after all of the sadness and the tears. We'll meet again, my old friend"
Tim McGraw "My Old Friend"
Dedicated To My Home..New Orleans
Of course there will always be people who disagree but I really don't need to blame Brannon for anything. I think he is right, and I agree that the end is depressing.
-
I agree whole heartedly. 80% of these B&B bashers sound like they are foaming at the mouth.
At the end of the day many ENT eps were good, many sucked - standard Trek distribution. The only thing I'll grant to the common opinion here is that season 4 was the best and so ostensibly Coto likely would have done a batter job at the helm. In terms of quality, but in terms of viewership? The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.
--------
'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden
Yes I think Braga is right about one thing...we are fatigued of the same TNG-esque B&B crap that has been spewed to us for the past couple of years.
The jump between TOS and the movies was quite large.
Then TNG introduced a totally different feel from either TOS or the movies. It's mode of story telling and A/B plot formulas prevailed. It was new and chic for its time.
DS9 brought story arcs into the picture and some darkness to the show, but it was still very much an extension of TNG. Basically it was TNG: the soap opera. All the Okudagrams were there, everything was very familiar.
Voyager was TNG Lite in Reverse. It basically felt like a bad clone of TNG with a "story arc" of going home. I'm not going to debate its merits here, but to me it felt like a really really long crappified TNG episode with a different cast. It too was an extension of TNG.
ENT was an opportunity to break from the previous dogma, the formulaic storylines, the stilted reused orchestral themes, and just generate a whole new look much the way the movies did for TOS or TNG did for TOS. But the same kind of TNG trek remained (and in a prequel no doubt!). You had all the basic elements of TNG with none of its endearing qualities.
So yes, we are sick of TNG trek which in the past few years have been attributed to B&B trek. It all still feels like TNG to me. There's nothing new and nothing innovative. You have phasers, shields, warp cores that look like lava lamps, bumpy skin aliens, and technobabble fixes. The mentality was still TNG. This has to change.
Let's try something new next time...
TOS = DOS (Not pretty but it works)
Movies = Dos Shell (Prettier but still DOS)
TNG = Windows 95 (Pretty and Innovative and Popular)
DS9 = Windows + Internet (You can do more with it but still windows)
Voyager = Windows ME (It looks the same as Windows, not a real improvement)
ENT=I have no idea what this would be. Anybody want to make a guess?
That dude is living in some strange alternate reality, I'm sure of it. I've gone from really loathing this guy, to extreme disapointment in B and B's inabililty to actaully listen to fans, to just a distant sadness. How much more can that guy dilute himself? This is really unreal. I wonder how many ST fans he insulted while he was there?
--------
"It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)
"Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
- Captain Spock (Much later)
....Brannon Braga/Rick Berman dartboards? They would be best sellers!!
I don't know how they get away with it, he created the show and wrote 37 episodes in Seasons 1 & 2 (plus Alien Nazis in Season 3) and yet hes not to blame in the slightest little bit.
Paramount will no doubt reward them with a new Trek film and Trek series in the near future. Way to go Brannon & Rick! Your the best!
Wonder if Ward Churchill or the Swift Boat Veterans showed up too.
--------
"I'm astounded that your organization [the MSHSAA] tries to regulate what these kids do in their free time. Would you tell them they couldn't watch Star Trek or eat potato chips?"
-Missouri State Rep. Bryan Stevenson, R-Joplin
I see Brannon is sticking to the party line of "franchise fatique." And to add insult to injury, this dunce was asked to speak at a "Philosophy of Star Trek" seminar! I can't think of anyone more unqualified to speak about either philosophy or Star Trek, since he obviously knows little about either.
Yes, Star Trek needs a rest. It needs to rest from fools like Braga and Berman. When will they admit they were responsible for driving Trek into the ground?
--------
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
Lay it on him folks!
--------
-
AAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH-Braga is the Captain of a Garbage scoul!!!!He's a tyberian bat eating a bloodworm-no he's the Bloodworm being eaten by a tyberian bat.
Where's my Bat'leth?
to heck with it-Where's my Diruptor?
--------
"First they take our Bat'leths, now they don't allow head butting or Bloodwine? These airlines are without Honor" - A Klingon on a Plane.
SHA-KA-REE: What does Shatner need with a starship?
(1)
| 
